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Post by abrowncoatforever on Apr 13, 2015 22:15:26 GMT
This is a work in progress. Posting is premature, obviously, but I wanted Joe to know that I wasn't just blowing him off. I really can't write worth a damn. Here's the proof in progress:
There Is No Spoon.Outline in progress: Some problem players can’t be fixed. Change your behavior instead of trying to change your players behavior If you don’t want your players to act like mercenaries, don’t treat them like mercenaries. If you want your players to be responsible, give them rewards for acting responsibly. Disclaimer: This advice is from the undisputed, worst GameMaster on the Planet Earth- probably the worst in the galaxy, but as they just discovered the Milky Way is at least 50% larger than previously expected and I haven’t had time to poll all the recently discovered territory yet, I’m holding off on claiming the title. I’ve got better things to do than dispense low quality, unsolicited gaming advice- but that requires effort on my part. So RPG GameMastering advice it is. So, we’ve all heard the horror stories about nightmare players. The FemiNazi that flat out loses it when the fair maiden needs rescuing (yeah, cuz Dale Arden, Princess Leia, and CDM Ivanova never needed any help!), the pothead that can’t seem to understand why negotiating a IRL drug deal at the game table is a faux pas, the social justice warrior that… You know, that’s gonna day all day. Needless to say you know who I’m talking about. But we’re not going to talk about them. Some people are just beyond help. I’m gonna talk about the problem players at your table that you can do something about. However, you will not like the answer. Now I could waste time conjuring up titles for different types of problem players and then defining them, but I really don’t see how that’s going to help. You see, I’m not going to advocate you try to change your player’s behavior. That’s impossible. Instead only try to realize the truth: The easiest behavior to change at the game table is yours. Told you you wouldn’t like the answer. Let’s have an example. The PCs are approached by the representative of a wealthy man that has a caravan problem. He wants to hire the PCs to solve it. It seems there is only one overland trade route to the other large city on this island and the last 2 caravans never made it. The players spend the next forty plus minutes negotiating their fee and expenses. Without sacrifice or prayer to the gods, without research of any kind, or even the purchase of a map, the PCs set out to earn their gold. They see it from the road first. An abandoned fortress beyond some fallow fields. Though a breach in the wall allows them relatively easy entry, the rest of the castle is in serviceable condition, save for the infestation of monsters which are soon dispatched. The battle finished the PCs depart to collect the other half of their payment never to return. Wait? What? A viable fortification sitting within line of sight of the ONLY overland trade route between two major cities, surrounded by arable land, unoccupied and unclaimed by any authority is just left behind without second thought? Yep. That’s what the players did, that’s what the GM planned. It has been my experience that, as a general rule, players flee responsibility as if it wanted to set them on fire. PCs will have no family, no attachments. Mages will join no orders, fighters will serve no lords. Players act like it’s a zombie apocalypse, any attachment is a weakness and only the strong will survive the next dungeon. But a strange thing happens when players, even problem players, acquire a ship: they embrace it. They dig their claws into it as if It started with missing livestock. A couple sheep, a foal, an old milk cow. Then the daughter of one of the local farmers went missing while fetching water. Every able bodied man, and not a few hardy women scour the glen in search of lost child. The heroes discover a set of strange tracks leading to a dark cavern. They venture inside the lair and slay a clutch of giant spiders that have been stalking the countryside. Within they find the desiccated remains of deer, sheep and two people: the lost girl and what appears to be the body of the sorcerer responsible for unleashing the horrors upon the land. In addition to some personal jewelry there is a jeweled dagger, a golden cup, and a polished silver mirror- treasures that no doubt were tools of the magician’s dark ritual. The heroes collect the riches so that no one else may unleash the monsters again, wrap up the girl’s body and return it to her family for proper burial. Yeah, I'm working on it. If you got any suggestions don't hesitate to flame- I mean tell me. |
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Post by Joe the Revelator on Apr 14, 2015 6:57:19 GMT
I like where this is going, and I especially appreciate the story you picked to illustrate the players' propensity to avoid responsibility at all cost, even if it flies in the face of reason. I'm thinking we bump the disclaimer up a paragraph, clean up some of the structure, and tie your title into the ending. I'll have the next draft posted here before tomorrow so you can give my changes a thumbs up or down. And if anyone else wants to do some proofing, knock yourselves out.
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Post by Joe the Revelator on Apr 14, 2015 9:50:04 GMT
Disclaimer: This advice is from the undisputed, worst Game Master on the Planet Earth. Probably the worst in the galaxy. But as they just discovered, the Milky Way is at least 50% larger than previously expected, and I haven’t had time to poll all the new territory yet. So for now I’m holding off on claiming the title Galactus Ruiner Of Games.
I’ve got better things to do than dispense low quality, unsolicited gaming advice… except those “better things” require effort on my part. So RPG advice it is.
(Stock Photo)
We’ve all heard horror stories about nightmare players. The FemiNazi that flat out loses her shit when a fair maiden needs rescuing (yeah, cuz Dale Arden, Princess Leia, and Commander Ivanova never needed help!) The pothead that doesn’t understand why negotiating a real-life drug deal at the game table is a faux pas. The social justice warrior…
Know what? This is gonna take all day. Needless to say, you know who I’m talking about. But we’re not focusing on them.
(Picture of gamer stereotype. Stock photo of GOT’s Sam Tarly maybe)
(Caption: Some people are just beyond help.)
Today I’m talking about the problem players you can do something about. But I warn you-- you will not like the answer. You see, I’m not advocating change in your player’s behavior. That’s impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth: The easiest behavior to change at the game table is yours.
Told you you wouldn’t like the answer.
Example: The PCs are approached by the representative of a wealthy merchant having caravan problems. He wants to hire the heroes to solve it. There is only one overland trade route between cities on this island, and the last two caravans never made it. For argument’s sake let’s say they were filled to the brim with cockatrice dung and set ablaze. So how do our heroes prepare for the journey?
They spend the next forty-plus minutes negotiating their fee and expenses.
(Stock Picture of an old man tallying money, or a miser of some sort)
Without sacrifice to the gods, without research of any kind, without even the purchase of a map, the PCs then set out to earn their gold. In real life we see this sort of behavior in patients escaping the nursing home.
Then they see it.
An abandoned fortress lies beyond some fallow fields. They approach the structure, where and a breach in the wall allows them relatively easy entry. Other than the rift in the wall, the rest of the castle is in serviceable condition, save for an infestation of monsters soon dispatched. And when the battle is finished the PCs depart-- to collect the other half of their payment, never to return.
Wait… What?
(Picture of a fortress)
(Caption: Nope. Heating bill will be murder)
Consider the scenario. A viable fortification. Sitting within line-of-sight of the ONLY overland trade route between major cities. Surrounded by arable land. Unoccupied. Unclaimed by any authority…left behind by the players without a second thought? Yep. That’s what they did. And worse yet, that’s what the GM planned.
It has been my experience that, as a general rule, players flee responsibility as if it wanted to set them on fire. PCs have no family, no attachments. Mages will join no order. Fighters will serve no lord. Players act like it’s a zombie apocalypse, where attachment is a weakness, and only the strong survive the next dungeon.
But a strange thing happens when players, even problem players, acquire a ship: they embrace it. They dig their claws into it as if
Notes:
Possibly replace my shitty title of Galactus Ruiner with another joke title.
We can change “flat out loses her shit” back to “flat out loses it” if you want to avoid cursing.
This has a good direction and flow so far. It’ll pack some punch when it’s wrapped up with a callback/restatement of “The easiest behavior to change at the game table is yours.”
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Post by abrowncoatforever on Apr 14, 2015 21:08:11 GMT
Well, you know that I don't flinch from fucking cuss'n. The real question is what better fits with the tone of the blog and the article? I've always heard "lost it" as a more polite version of "lost their shit" so I think either will work. Now the tone I think you're going for is sorta an "RPG flavored Cracked"- correct me if I'm wrong. Cracked doesn't flinch from profanity, or at least Pointless Waste of Time didn't (I sometimes forget which articles were PWoT pieces before he joined Cracked) and I think I'm rambling now from a chronic case of sleep deprivation. Or I could just blame it on the fascists in Salem that think I should pay for their re-election via my tax dollars diverted to their own bullshit pet projects. Where was I? Right, swearing. So, anyways, I guess the real question, all rambling aside, is:
Do you think profanity will negatively impact the readership numbers?
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Post by Joe the Revelator on Apr 15, 2015 13:23:56 GMT
Cuss away. My personal belief about censorship is that it's bullshit, and only belongs in polite company. Honestly, I remember historical facts and science trivia better if there's a little blue humor involved.
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Post by abrowncoatforever on Apr 21, 2015 16:40:59 GMT
OK so maybe from a different angle: Jay’s Codex
For your indulgence, here, collected for the first time, is the incomplete canon of tabletop role-play gaming. Compiled and annotated by the world’s absolute worst gamemaster, this rare tome shall advise the novice as to exactly why, whatever the problem with your campaign, it is, beyond any doubt, your fault. An aggressive assertion I admit, however one I am confident a fair review of these laws shall defend. Let us begin with… Jay’s Axiom:The easiest behavior to change at the game table is your own.This is the foundation of the above assertion. No matter what the problem with your game, if you haven’t changed how you are behaving, well, you know what Einstein said about doing the same thing over and over again while expecting different results… Jay’s Tenet:
Bored players are problem players. So, we’ve all heard the horror stories about nightmare players. The FemiNazi that flat out loses it when the fair maiden needs rescuing (yeah, cuz Dale Arden, Princess Leia, and CDM Ivanova never needed any help!), the pothead that can’t seem to understand why negotiating a IRL drug deal at the game table is a faux pas, the social justice warrior that…but enough examples. Those players are beyond fixing. If you’ve honestly got one of these then your problem is you still have one of these. But most problem players are NOT one of these. Most problem players are just bored. Are they starting fights that don't make sense? Are they wasting the table's time visiting their PC's grandma (Because that's what their character would do!) while the remainder sit glued to their smart phones? Are they expending way too much effort trying to negotiate an unreasonable price for something that doesn't matter anyway? You see, bored players will Jay’s Maxim:Players will keep score.It might be ever greater accumulation of gold pieces, a generous accounting of fair serving wenches “charmed”, or a pile of “slain” monster miniatures resting on the character’s sheet- or perhaps all three. What you can count on is the players are keeping count. If you’ve been told RPGs have no winners, then you’ve been told wrong. And the players are going to do what it takes to “win” no matter what it does to your campaign. Now don’t fall into the trap of thinking that surviving the campaign and completing the story counts towards victory. It doesn’t. They already expect to survive the battle, kill the bad guy, and get the treasure. That’s part of the plot. The adventure’s default assumption. Every combat encounter is designed with an eye towards the PCs coming out on top. Every mystery is constructed to entertain as the secrets are revealed. Solving the case, catching the bad guy, getting the loot, these are givens in the player’s victory calculus. And from this deep seated desire to keep score players will proceed to wreck your game with “you stole MY kill” arguments and 40+ minute negotiations over remuneration- followed by negotiations for “expenses”. And it's not that they need the money. It's just a way of scoring. Players will keep score, but bored players will obsess about their score. Now you can try to remove all the scoring opportunities from your campaign in an effort to streamline the game, but you risk sapping the last remaining elements of enjoyment from your table. The better angle is to embrace the scoring. It's not that competition is bad per say, it's just that most RPGs are built around a cooperative play foundation. Players that compete within a cooperative endeavor are going to be disruptive to that endeavor. Instead, make sure during scenario design that you are including opportunities to constructively score. What do I mean by constructive scoring? Scoring that advances the campaign by encouraging exploration, character development or even just BLANK Now here's where I steal another great idea from Angry Joe. Joe, with his demonic guile, introduced achievement awards into his campaign. Just like achievements on an X-box game without the annoying pop-up while you're dueling with an Elite. An amazing thing happened. For example, encourage the scoring of discovered clues for your mystery/investigation Clothes Horse/ achievements, lands, titles, arrests
Jay’s Aphorism:
Players will eschew responsibility.Sure, they’ll commit to fighting giant spiders armed only with broken toothpicks, but players will flee responsibility as if it was trying to set them on fire. Want to see fear in your player’s eyes? Wait two sessions, then have the serving wench associated with that natural 20 charisma roll make a fresh appearance while knitting little blue booties for “junior”.
Jay’s Dictum:
If you want your players to act responsibly, give them rewards for acting responsibly.How a ship is better than a castle, how to make a castle desirable by Jay's Adage:Players will not care about your NPCs.Players will welcome their character’s old friends and close family as warmly as distant relatives that appear after a winning lotto ticket. You want players to like an NPC? Make that NPC a source of something valuable to the players. The bartender that always tips them off when somebody dangerous is looking for them. The mechanic that can get the illegal hardware and will loan them a subtle car when their's is riddled with bullet holes. Have an NPC give them something they want, get them used to the resource, then have that NPC come to harm and have the resource dry up. They will care. They might even want revenge. And if you're very, very lucky, this caring will encourage them to establish and maintain relationships with other NPCs. Jay’s Doctrine:
If you don’t want your players to act like mercenaries, don’t treat them like mercenaries.Granted, sometimes you want your players to act like soulless murder machines only motivated by the prospect of direct, untraceable, remuneration- I’m looking at you Shadowrun… Jay’s Corollary:
If you want your players to act like heroes, you need to treat them like heroes! Like Jay's Doctrine, this circles back to reinforce Jay's Axiom. If you don't OK, enough editing. I've got to go to the Hardware store. |
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Post by OP_Rob on Apr 23, 2015 21:15:57 GMT
Just a quick thought I'd add in, a short paragraph somewhere mayhaps or a sentence tacked on to one. If shooting for this to be an article from the DM's perspective, it's probably worth mentioning that the biggest underlying factor to dealing with your problem players is understanding that they are at your table because you let them be. A good DM should structure his quests and world around the general play style of the friends he brings to the table. If you know all of your friends are going to play like said mercenaries, looting everything not bolted down and running off right after, you should write your quests expecting that. If, however, you have one or two players who going to play in a more righteous manner for example, don't be surprised when your quest to loot the piss out of this dungeon falls on it's face because the Paladin wants to return all the wealth to the proper lord of the land and infighting between the players happens.
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Post by Joe the Revelator on Apr 23, 2015 22:31:05 GMT
Jay's axioms and Rob's idea can be their own article. I'm looking at There Is No Spoon being one of the first long-form article we post. All we need now is a closing line to:
"But a strange thing happens when players, even problem players, acquire a ship: they embrace it. They dig their claws into it as if..."
I'll move Jay's Axioms into another WIP later this weekend.
After the acquiring a ship paragraph is finished I'll proof it again. Afterward I vote we move it to the Finalized Articles section. There we let Google Analytics help us stick a title. I like "There Is No Spoon" but we might find a better fit if everyone agrees.
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Post by OP_Rob on Apr 25, 2015 2:34:15 GMT
Alrighty. I've made a note for myself about an article idea for problem players. I'm in agreement on everything else.
Damn ships...
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Post by abrowncoatforever on Apr 25, 2015 14:30:18 GMT
I think the original piece is too disjointed. Trying to boil too much into too little. And since I'm using most of the material in the Laws effort it would be redundant. I've still got some revising, not to mention straight up composition! to do on the Laws pieces. Like I realized that the Players don't care about your NPC's is just too limiting for a law. That direction would require several laws with the same basic idea: Players don't care.
Now I'm sure you're feeling pressure to get something published, and I'll try to find some time get work on it, but maybe it would be better to set this one on the back burner for a spell and start editing How to steamroll your players for publication. After all Joe, some of us have make our way through life WITHOUT talent!
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Post by Joe the Revelator on Apr 26, 2015 7:08:37 GMT
Pfft... Those without talent become agents.
Anywho, so long as you can wrap up the last paragraph or two from my edit of There Is No Spoon, we can work on axioms later. Back-burner is fine for now on that one. AKA: climbing up article mountain on another week.
Never feel stressed for time, however. There are hundreds of blogs out there wasting away in obscurity, and in my experience 98% of them love to be re-blogged for credit. Filler will never be a problem. I just want to do the best edit/cut of our original work as possible.
I really think There Is No Spoon has a really good nugget of truth in it-- illustrating how players will abandon a fucking fortification because they've been conditioned to slay the dragon with only equipment they could fit in a travel pack/shopping cart.
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